Do write in and let me know if there is any issue in particular, related to music , that you would like to discuss.

Regards

Shubha

I’m sorry to hear that you’ve had a hard time learning about classical music. The good news is that there is a good source in Ahmadnagar, where it seems that you live. Pavan Naik runs the Naad Brahma music school there. He is a good singer (a student of Vikas Kashalkar) and a good teacher, and is tremendously openhearted about teaching. He is dedicated to teaching anyone who wants to learn. You also mentioned that you are interested in Sufi music. Pavan has studied Farsi and Urdu and sings Qawwali, as well, though he is primarily a khyaliya. He would be a good starting point if you are interested. His email address is pavannad@rediff.com.

Nice blog, Shubha ji. I really enjoyed your presentation on Thumri last month in Pune.

With Best Wishes,
Matthew Rahaim

it is dawning on me that it is useless to try to make you understand that IT IS NOT POSSIBLE to have indian music documented the way you want, because – I repeat – that wouldn’t be hindustani classical, but just dead information. This music is a living thing.

You should first go try learn from a guru and then come back and speak about your desires.

I simply cannot believe that somebody, recongnizing his own imcompetence in one field, can get so stubborn as to argue about it.

This music will not die because there are people who still preserve it. And OF COURSE this music is not for everybody. And there are many institutions to learn it. Unless you want one just across your street…You seem to be a westerner, judging by your lazy attitude. That is why I am not going to waste my ginger on monkeys, you can find MANY things in the internet if you know how to use it. He who knows how to search, he will find.

Enough on this subject from my side.

Thanks, Shubha ji, for being a pioneer and for making this space open to discussions.

Regards,
Meera.

I’d like to mention that classical musicians seem to have been borrowing from Haveli Sangeet texts for some time now, and this trend can in no way be considered recent.

The Bihaagda khayal composition ‘pyaari paga haule…/प्यारी पग हौले..’ is an example of this process, where the song text has been taken from a Haveli Sangeet verse, and adapted for khayal. Similarly, I found the popular Bihag composition ‘lata ulajhi suljhaa jaa baalam/लट उलझी सुलझा जा बालम’ in a collection of तीज कौ पद , so this borrowing of texts and perhaps even musical ideas from Haveli Sangeet is really not something that contemporary classical musicians can take credit for.

As for your concern that classical musicians are taking liberties with the form, or not adhering to the norms of kirtan and samaaj gayan, I feel you need not worry too much unless a classical artiste is claiming that he or she is presenting Haveli Sangeet. I, for one, have never claimed that I am presenting Haveli Sangeet. I have said repeatedly that I am inexorably drawn to singing the texts that I find in Pushti Margi collections, or Gaudiya Sampradaya collections, and my compositions of these texts sometimes can be classified as khayal compositions; at times, there are influences of thumri-dadra; and at times, they do not adhere to any specific form.

The चौपड़ का पद sung by Rajan ji and Sajan ji in Deepavali is taken from the third volume of a collection titled श्री राधावल्लभजी का वर्षोत्सव, published in Vrindavan. It is not a shayan aarti pad to the best of my knowledge, but is part of the repertoire presented during Deepavali and Annakut, where Thakur ji traditionally plays a game of ‘chaupar’ with Priya ji and the sakhis. While there is no clear indication of the authorship, it is possibly written by Goswami Shri Govardhanlal ji. Would you like to go through the complete verse?

Btw, it isn’t too difficult to guess which classical artiste with his disciples you are referring to

But, one kirtaniya whom I heard some years ago and who now comes frequently to the Radha Raman temple in Vrindavan for raag sewa, is Chandra Prakash ji from Kishangarh in Rajasthan. Do listen to him too if you get the chance.

Regards

Shubha

Just checked your exchange and decided to pitch in!

Shankar-Shambhu were interviewed and recorded for the archives of the Department of Music, University of Mumbai. This was when Dr. Ashok Ranade headed the Department. I am not sure of the present state of the archives, but it would be well worth our while to check these out.

Cheers,

Aneesh

There is no need to apologize for the delay in responding. I am so busy here in Canada with research and other personal responsibilities, that I get incredibly backed up in e-mail. Finding your e-mail in my box over a cup of tea was a great way to start off the week (along with listening to a recording of bhajans sung by Pt. Atul Desai).

There seems to be something of a renaissance when it comes to so-called ‘long-lost’, ‘dying’ traditions of devotional singing in the subcontinent. One is not only talking about Qawwali, but also the resurgence in both Gurmat Sangit within the Sikh community and Haveli Sangit among our classical artists.

Since my long-time research interest has been in Pushti Marga, I both admit that I have been quite happy yet also concerned about the recent spate recordings/adapatations of ‘Haveli Sangit’.

I have been fortunate to listen to this genre of music sung in Pushti Marga shrines at Nathdvara, Kankaroli, Mathura, and Gokul, alongside the recordings of Vitthaldas Bapodara, Bhagvati Prasad Gandharva, Girish Karia and others.

The recordings put out by our classical artists seem to be a rather pale reproduction of what the trained kirtaniyas sing. I am not sure why this is, but is this — like Qawalli — part of the comprises make when classical artists sing for a large audience outside the dargah or haveli ?

The Qawalli style has to be tailored to the ears of a younger generation or — in the case of Haveli Sangit — to the ears of classical music lovers more used to the long improvisations associated with khyal singing. Even the much revered singer, Acharya Gokulotsavji Maharaj in his most recent recording of Haveli Sangit, did not follow the performance rules governing the style.

I am starting to think perhaps one needs to make a distinction between concert and ritual performances of genres like Qawwal and Haveli Sangit where the music is sung treated according to what the setting tends to demand. In the case of Haveli Sangit, the manner in which a particular artist (who shall remained unnamed) and his disciples have been ‘popularizing’ and ‘adapting’ the song style for their concerts, has brought me quite close to experiencing multiple strokes. I have found the watering down of the genre to be mnost upsetting.

Thank you for your interest in my research. I am just starting out in the academic world and my research is not really around music, but around comparative religion with an emphasis on medieval bhakti. Right now, my interest is in the Pushti Marga I have two articles forthcoming related to the history of the Pushti Marga. I will be more than happy to send you citations for them when they are finally out.

Thank you as well for pointing me in the correct direction concerning the Qawwals in India. I will be soon in touch with these expertsi n the field.

I have one final question: you edited the Dipavali (now renamed Mangal Swara for some reason) volume for Music-Today where you and Pts. Rajan-Sajan Misra sing Dipavali compositions. I was wondering if you could tell me who wrote the last composition sung by the Misras on their contribution. It was in Raga Bihag and — I presume — a shayana arati pada entitled “Panse Khelat Pritama Pyari”. It didn’t seem to be by the poet who wrote the pada that you sang on the “Pansa” theme on your contribution to the volume.

Apologies for the long post. I am starting to think I have hijacked your blog for myself. Take your time in answering.

Yours,
Shandip.